Synopsis from Kelly

Here goes what I remember.....

By the way, we did not discuss chapter 4 Tuesday so we will this week (Jan 10). It is a pretty meaty chapter so we did not want to rush it. Also, there are only 7 chapters in this book,so we need to start thinking about what we want to do next.

Chapter 2: Yoke. We talked about the fact that the Bible is difficult to read and to understand. And it can change just about every time you read it. When Pastor Kai had us read the same chapters in Mark one Lent season over and over each week; what he wanted was for us to realize was, depending on where WE are, the chapter may mean something different each day. We also discussed how it is important to read the verses before and after any certain verse before we decide what God is truly telling us. An example was given about Women being subservient to men. But the verses before and after that part (and no I can't tell you where it is in the Bible, maybe someone else can add?) talks about how Man is supposed to love his wife like Christ loves the Church (anyone know one like that?) But the woman being lesser or not as important is usually what gets quoted.

In chapter 2 it also talks about the fact that the Bible is interpretive and so it needs to be discussed in community. The Bible has to be interpreted or it can not be put into action. We must first make decisions as to what it means, in this place, at this time. The book says in Jesus' world it was assumed you had as much to learn from the discussion as you did the text.

We talked about the fact that the English Bible of course is not the original, it was translated to English. Many words do not have a true equal partner in all languages. The example given was Hell. In Greek it is Gehenna (yeah where we live). Gehenna was a valley that saw many violent deaths and was considered cursed. By Jesus' day it was the town dump. When He spoke of Gehenna, people of that time knew where he was speaking of. But today we would not. So Hell is what we have come to interpret as the Devil's location. And while Satan probably enjoyed hanging out in Gehenna it is not "exactly" what we think of as Hell.

Chapter 2 is summed up nicely on page 68. "At some point we have to have faith. Faith that God is capable of guiding people. Faith that God has not left us alone. Faith that the same spirit that lead Peter & Paul and those people in a room in the 300s is still with us today."

Chapter 3: Basically we talked about the fact that God is everywhere. He made everything. In the book it says missionaries claim to be bringing Christ or God to third world places, but Rob Bell is saying, God is already there. They just weren't aware yet. We talked about how labels can get in our way as Christians. We don't need to label anything such as music, movies, books, jobs etc as Christian. If WE are Christian or the artist is a Christian then their work or our creations are Christian. Now that can be desecrated as all things can. But the bottom line is we don't need to label things as Christian for them to be "good". The book has a great line. It says "Christian is a great noun but a poor adjective" Where ever we are, whatever we do, if we do it as God would want us to, it is sacred.

The book has a great way of looking at forgiveness. Something we all agreed is a tough thing to REALLY do. It says the word forgive in Greek means to send away. People hurt us and we end up carrying around these debts they owe us wherever we go. To forgive is to refuse to carry those debts." This helps me to imagine whatever someone may have done to me being carried away, even if the thing being carried away IS the person. I think it will help me to learn to forgive a little easier.

Posting from Kelly

We missed all that were not there tonight. I hope everyone is OK & just busy with the holiday stuff. Deb, Joan, Nan, Gena & I met tonight but many of us had not fully read the chapters. Soooooo we just visited. We also decided that we would take the next 2 Tuesdays off due to 3 of us being gone next week to Faith Mission & the 27th many will be traveling or entertaining guests, or just catching our breath from the season. So, we will resume on Tuesday Jan. 3rd at 6:30p. We decided to have the Intro and chapters 1-4 read by then. That gives everyone time to catch up if they have been busy, and to really get into gear for the new year.

On another note, we may have a new member, Shari Murphy joining us then as well. She e-mailed me looking for a group. I told her all about us & the plans I just typed. So hopefully I did not scare her!!! If you know Shari, encourage her to come when you see her.

Let's try to keep in touch over the next few weeks to help keep each other sane!

Posting from Tonya

So far I am finding Velvet Elvis to be a dense book- the language is simple enough but you have to dig into the concepts and as he says, wrestle with them. Some of the concepts are somewhat difficult for someone like me who is from a rather rigid/traditional/conservative background, especially when he questions core Christian doctrines such as the virgin birth and even Jesus' own teaching of salvation through Christ alone (John 14:6.) I was really uncomfortable with those suggestions, especially as they brought up two kinds of blasphemy in my mind- no I certainly don't believe Jesus had an earthly father, (really disturbing thought- I was raised Catholic you know) whether it was a Roman soldier (as some historians have ventured to say) or some guy named Larry, and I certainly don't believe in universalism (that all people are saved no matter what) or in works based salvation (earning enough brownie points, being a "good guy" or doing enough penance.)

Yet we do have to be brave enough to confront these ideas and tackle our doubts, otherwise how do we know what we believe? A faith unchallenged is no faith at all. The question asked here is when does orthodoxy (the definition for Christian orthodoxy I would use here is what Christians profess in the Apostles' Creed) become rigidity, exclusivity or legalism? Are we shutting people out (building walls) instead of inviting them to come and jump on the trampoline? But openness is not without its pitfalls as well. The danger I see to being open and inclusive is we can become so inclusive that we start to espouse ideology that is clearly outside of Christian faith and fail to preach and teach the full Gospel. Yes we should be inviting, but not to the point of betraying the Jesus we claim to profess. We have to offer the whole truth. We cannot sell a feel good "prosperity gospel" or simply offer entertainment to put hineys in the seats. We have been entrusted with sharing ! the Gospel of Jesus, which is far more than simply giving people a warm fuzzy once or twice a week. We have to actually live out all the hard things Jesus commands us to do and to be light and salt.

Then again, who has to defend a trampoline? The image of inviting others to come jump on the trampoline is a wonderful image of faith by example, of living a warm, inviting, lively faith as opposed to being a stodgy old codger defending a brick wall. I've been to many churches that felt more like ethnic preservation societies- graveyards, actually- instead of communities where God is living and active. Maybe this is why I am so drawn to Peace- I'm continually being encouraged and challenged to learn and grow in faith instead of being permitted to fall into complacency and stodgy codgerdom. *Balance* seems to be a key concept here.

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